![]() ![]() We got it based on traditional interrogation techniques. They redacted anything that shows that information that people claim it was a result of torture and waterboarding. SOUFAN: They redacted anything that contradicts with the narrative that torture work. But in general, what kinds of things were removed? As a courtesy, it was shown to the CIA, and they redacted a lot of stuff. They made some changes, but, you know, you met your requirements, and they were comfortable with it. There's a big difference between cooperation and compliance.ĭAVIES: When you wrote your memoir in 2011, you took it to the FBI. You get it in building rapport and traditional interrogation techniques that outsmart the detainee into cooperation. I don't want people to tell me what I want to hear. I can tell you and what I talk about in this book is the reality itself. Before you got into the FBI, did you think that was true, too?ĪLI SOUFAN: Well, this is a Hollywood version of reality. There's a general feeling that, yeah, pain makes people tell the truth. You know, cops slap around suspects, you know, criminals, beat information out of informants. And, you know, we've seen this in TV and movies for years. You know, we heard at the end of that clip from "Zero Dark Thirty" the interrogator saying, you know, in the end, everybody breaks. He spoke to me from his home in northern New Jersey.Īli Soufan, welcome back to FRESH AIR. He's also the author of the 2017 book "The Anatomy Of Terror." He now heads The Soufan Group, a private intelligence and security consulting firm. Ali Soufan served in the FBI from 1997 to 2005. Now after a legal battle, the redactions have been restored and the book, "Black Banners (Declassified): How Torture Derailed The War On Terror After 9/11," is available. Soufan published a book about his experiences in 2011 after vetting it with the FBI, but the CIA succeeded in redacting large portions of it. ![]() He says interrogations based on careful preparation and building rapport generated useful information and actionable intelligence from detainees while torture usually induced subjects to clam up or give bad information to make the torment stop. ![]() Soufan, born in Lebanon and fluent in Arabic, has interrogated dozens of al-Qaida members and other extremists. Our guest, former FBI agent Ali Soufan, says the record of investigations into terrorist networks shows exactly the opposite is true. It's biology.ĭAVIES: There's a widespread belief that harsh so-called enhanced interrogation techniques like sleep deprivation and waterboarding - however distasteful - yielded valuable information in the battle against terrorism. JASON CLARKE: (As Dan) Where was the last time you saw bin Laden? Where was the last time you saw bin Laden? You know, when you lie to me, I hurt you. In the 2012 film "Zero Dark Thirty" about the hunt for Osama bin Laden, there's a scene where a suspected terrorist is being waterboarded by an American interrogator who's demanding information. Last year, country legend Dolly Parton made a fuss about her inclusion but ultimately joined the 2022 class alongside Eminem, Lionel Richie, Duran Duran, Carly Simon, Eurythmics, Pat Benatar and Neil Giraldo.This is FRESH AIR. In a May interview with The Times, Rock Hall Chairman John Sykes said that “rock ’n’ roll has never been one definitive sound but rather an attitude or a spirit” and that this year’s honorees show “how diverse the definition of rock ’n’ roll has become.” The new class represents a broad array of musical styles and genres, including country, hip-hop, rap-rock, R&B, art pop, folk-rock, dance music and blue-eyed soul. The 2023 class is said to be among the most varied in the hall’s history, with women and people of color outnumbering white men, whose work the group has long been criticized for overvaluing. “Father of Hip-Hop” DJ Kool Herc, late rock guitar pioneer Link Wray, vocalist Chaka Khan, songwriter and record producer Al Kooper, Elton John’s longtime collaborator Bernie Taupin and “Soul Train’s” Don Cornelius also will be inducted into the Rock hall this year. ![]()
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